*** Eric Davis added Shane Pearlman, zanuda13 ***
Eric Davis: Hello everyone
Shane Pearlman: hey eric
zanuda13: hello
SikhNerd: Howdy
Eric Davis: Shane: I don't see Peter online, will he be coming too?
Shane Pearlman: don't think so
*** Eric Davis has changed the conversation topic to "Redmine UI/UX meetup" ***
Shane Pearlman: eric- you handling the conference call or do you want me to?
zanuda13: are we expecting someone else to join us?
Shane Pearlman: Goal: The goal is to establish the purview of the UX working group. What is our scope / not in our scope. How can we be of most help and value to the community and product?
Shane Pearlman: To start off: Who are you? what is your background? what do you want to contribute? what is your vision?
Shane Pearlman: Eric Davis - core developer. support ux group so that our suggestions get implement
Eric Davis: http://www.pmphq.com/
Shane Pearlman: Igor - run dev company, does dev for customers on redmine, would like it to be easier to use.
zanuda13: Shane one correction we do provide hosting redmine service not redmine development :)
zanuda13: thanks Eric for the link
Eric Davis: Shane - partner of a freelance team, member of the Wordpress dev community, worked with Eric on one of the largest Redmine theme and has some good feedback based on that development.
SikhNerd: Muntek Singh, support ux group through documentation, and anything else I can provide. I'm working on Yet Another redmine commercial offering, and I just use redmine a lot and love it for my many internal projects. I'm a project manager for most projects I'm involved in and a big support of OSS
SikhNerd: close enough :)
Shane Pearlman: General Goal? Purview - what should we affect and what is outside our scope?
Eric Davis: Shane - have Redmine be a powerful yet simple to use tool.  Balancing power and ease of use.
SikhNerd: I'm generally more end-user focused, and would really like to see redmine become easier to *use* I have no problem with redmine being drupal-like in that it might need an admin to setup/configure. But at the end of the day I agree with igor and redmine needs a more consistant UX and needs to be more intuitive.
Eric Davis: Igor - focus more on the end user UX than the admin UX.
SikhNerd: So the question is, does the UX team focus on both equally, or more end-user (My vote is end-user)
SikhNerd: Correct, end-users not coming to r.o
on forums is People setting up and configuration.
SikhNerd: We do however see a larger number of end-users in IRC
SikhNerd: agreed
Eric Davis: Eric - more admins but could be selection bias (IT admins with quesions vs end users)
SikhNerd: Adding a "webchat" to r.o will help that alot- something like http://webchat.freenode.net/
Shane Pearlman: User Research?
SikhNerd: Shane - Yeah, my larget redmine install has about the same 100 user - VAST majority don't find the filters, etc that we consider basic, but is beyond them
SikhNerd: I think part of this is because we don't have a ton of end-user documentation. For instance - where would a regular end-user find out about the right-click context menu on Issue list? Other than by accident - vast majority don't know about it.
Eric Davis: Shane - user level survey to figure out what issues users run into.
Eric Davis: SikhNerd: in the code, duh! :)
Eric Davis: Shane - "survery" inside the help section
SikhNerd: So we still haven't answered the initial question - What is the overal focus and purview of the UX Team?
Shane Pearlman: =)
Shane Pearlman: yup
SikhNerd: But a lot of those admins are searching for answers for their users
Shane Pearlman: sorry for the tangent
SikhNerd: I think some analysis of the feature requests on r.o is neccessary as well
Shane Pearlman: 1st time user experience?
SikhNerd: What if UX team focused on making all the features of redmine more accessible, obvious, intuitive to end-users. Eric's built-in help idea would go along way
Eric Davis: Shane: a have a client who just asked for % done by status. And he's running that version also :)
SikhNerd: Eric: Both
SikhNerd: but more end-user
Eric Davis: Redmine developer, Administrator, End User
SikhNerd: Plan.io has a plugin that does some of this
SikhNerd: adds a box to the top of every page with tips
SikhNerd: it's not complete, but covers a lot of stuff
SikhNerd: sign up for plan.io free account :P
SikhNerd: works for me
SikhNerd: it's also my goals for the end-user documentation as well
Eric Davis: "Making Redmine accessible, obvious, and intutive to end-users."
SikhNerd: Public Relations
SikhNerd: Internal UX team discussion/exploration -> Open issue on redmine.org that has a status different then others "UX Team Decision" -> work with dev team to implement.
Eric Davis: Shane - UX teams gets in and helps review new features. (e.g. New panel in Dev and UX reviews it to make sure it's usability)
Shane Pearlman: t-shirt size - sm - m - l?
Shane Pearlman: sm = tiny change, just do it and either submit patch or ask dev to - make an issue
Shane Pearlman: m = tell other groups we want to tackle a feature, coordinate
Shane Pearlman: l = significant overhaul or new feature, core group meetings, discuss
SikhNerd: JPL accepted their latest patches and committed them on the same day
Eric Davis: Shane - PR goal for this year to get more developers.
SikhNerd: Shane - 100% Agreed.
Eric Davis: Shane - Wordpress gives credibility to their contributors.
Eric Davis: Shane - larger issues (like first time UX) should be reviewed, but smaller issues could be fixed easier.
SikhNerd: There are 3-4 people on the forums interested in helping with UI
zanuda13: yeh thats what i was refering to
SikhNerd: for reals, subtasking in trunk is sitll confusing
Shane Pearlman: developers should let ux group know what features they are working on, so that ux group can be involved in tasks that have active developer support
Shane Pearlman: question - is there a nightly build living somewhere?
Shane Pearlman: on huroku?
SikhNerd: I have a demo site that I update every 3 days
zanuda13: from the trunk?
SikhNerd: yeah
zanuda13: i did not know that trunk is that stable now
SikhNerd: it's *mostly* stable
SikhNerd: but it's always useable/functional
zanuda13: good to know
Eric Davis: SikhNerd: want to use yours or should I setup one?
SikhNerd: either way is fine
SikhNerd: I update mine manually, but I'm pretty regular
SikhNerd: I don't purge the data though
SikhNerd: if it's just for UX team type stuff feel free to use mine, or I can give you full access to mine
Eric Davis: I can script it
SikhNerd: Joomla does it a bit differently
SikhNerd: and is also successful
Shane Pearlman: true
Shane Pearlman: how?
SikhNerd: The main part is overides
SikhNerd: there is the "core" and you can overide any of the html/css/etc in the theme
Shane Pearlman: I think that changing the default theme is a all hands core issue
SikhNerd: No I meant the "Joomla-way" of themeing is based on there being a core output, and themes override the core output. If I have a folder in my theme /themes/themename/html/footer/ Joomla will output whats in that folder and not what's in the "core"
SikhNerd: aka Overrides :)
SikhNerd: There is no problem having Themes and Plugins tied to point-releases
SikhNerd: every major OSS does this
Shane Pearlman: agreed
zanuda13: i agree as well
SikhNerd: Plugin/Theme Directory will *have* to include tieing to specific version
Eric Davis: Shane - redesigning the default theme and building a better theme arch are important but need buy in from all of the core teams. Next DevMeeting.
SikhNerd: +1
Eric Davis: 1) our goar  "Making Redmine accessible, obvious, and intutive to end-users." 2) work with other teams as needed on tiny, small, and large improvements 3) revisit theme updates later
SikhNerd: #337?
SikhNerd: OH
zanuda13: 337 is delayed till 1.1 is not it?
Eric Davis: http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/roadmap
SikhNerd: at DevMeeting0 we agreed to have a Logo Contest BEFORE 1.0
SikhNerd: ^^^
Shane Pearlman: Eric suggested new statuses: pending documentation review, pending ux review
Shane Pearlman: or maybe tags
SikhNerd: May 14th 1300 UTC
SikhNerd: yeah we scheduled the sceond one earlier than 1 month so we can get our bearings
SikhNerd: 1 hour earlier than last one
SikhNerd: is this group gonna run the Logo Contest?
Eric Davis: I need to get the UX demo up
Eric Davis: I need to spike on the Logo contest.
Eric Davis: Igor and Shane to try out the UX on Subtasks
Eric Davis: Eric to highlight issues that need UI/UX help
Eric Davis: Shane and Igor to review subtask UI on Tues (open to all)
Eric Davis: #443
Eric Davis: ah, not IRC :P
SikhNerd: heh
Eric Davis: http://www.redmine.org/issues/443
SikhNerd: I asked JPL for permission to be able to edit issues/forums and he gave it to me yesterday
SikhNerd: I vote wiki page
SikhNerd: Same format as Devmeetings
Eric Davis: +1
SikhNerd: I'll take that task of setting that up on the wiki
SikhNerd: Sure
SikhNerd: Thanks all, ttyl. Eric -> I'll catch you on IRC with creds to Trunk demo site
Shane Pearlman: Thanks all - nice chatting
zanuda13: yeh thanks all
Eric Davis: Thanks all
Shane Pearlman: Muntek, I was so hoping you would say one really deep comment out loud right at the end
Shane Pearlman: like silent bob
Eric Davis: SikhNerd: how about if I setup a new one on Heroku and give out access to it?
SikhNerd: Eric: whatever is easier for you
Eric Davis: I have scripts for Heroku setups
SikhNerd: k, go nuts :)
SikhNerd: Shane: haha
Shane Pearlman: l8t
Eric Davis: There's also a UI category, might be useful to check for work here for now. http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/issues?query_id=83
SikhNerd: yeah I went through those over the weekend, over 80% are pure feature requests
SikhNerd: only a handful I found to be useful
Eric Davis: k